2006 Inquiry Archive

Indmeldte records
IP: 64.12.116.195
Posted on May 28, 2006 at 05:55:06 PM by

I am familiar with Inflytting and Udflytting records, but recently encountered records calle "Indmeldte" and "Udmeldte."

Can someone please tell me what these records are?

In Gran Indmeldte, I find an entry for Nils Johannesen Morstad dated 8 July 1891.

I find him in the Udmeldte record 14 October 1890.

Nils Johannesen was born in Gran, 1858.

Ingeborg Andersdatter
IP: 128.104.216.12
Posted on April 30, 2006 at 02:05:41 PM by

Ingeborg Andersdatter was born about June 30, 1858 on Gautvedteiet farm near Gran, a daughter of Anders Erickson and Kari Andersdatter, both of Gran. She had a sister Martha born about 1854, and a brother Gudbrand born about 1852. Ingeborg (Known as "Emma" in the US) immigrated about 1877 and lived in Lafayette County, Wisconsin, marrying Ole Gilbertson on December 12, 1878 in Wiota. She died on January 3, 1940, a mother of nine children.

I would like to learn further details of her siblings, and if the names/dates of her ancestors can be found. Thank you!

Ole Gulbrandsen
IP: 128.104.216.12
Posted on April 30, 2006 at 01:59:28 PM by

Ole was born on Daehleneiet farm in Brandbu, on November 28, 1850, a son of Gulbrand Olsen and Annie Andersdatter. He immigrated to Wisconsin on May 29, 1877, leaving Christiana for New York. Once in Wisconsin he went by Ole "Gilbertson," married Ingeborg Andersdatter of Gran, and farmed in Lafayette County.

I would like to learn if he had any siblings, if any of them immigrated, and also who his ancestors were if possible. Thank you!

Gilbertson Family
IP: 71.117.4.194
Posted on March 20, 2006 at 03:26:21 PM by

I am looking for information on the Gulbrandsen (Gilbertson) Family. I know that Anders {(Andrew) born in Gran, 1861} and Marthe {born in 1964} left Norway in 1867 and moved to Killbourn, WI (Wisconsin Dells). I don't know where they left from or why. I would like to know if any of the brothers (Erick, Nils) stayed in Norway. Thank you for any information you may be able to give.

Re(1): Gilbertson Family
IP: 66.228.250.28
Posted on March 20, 2006 at 06:36:05 PM by Dave Gunderson

I briefly looked for an Anders Gulbrandsen , born in 1861 in Gran, with brothers Erich, Nils, and a sister Marthe.

The 1865 Gran Census shows the following family living at the Engen Farm:

Gulbrand Eriksen age 63 Father
Anne Halvorsdatter age 42 Wife
Erik Gulbrandsen age 18 Son
Halvor Gulbrandsen age 16 Son
Nils Gulbrandsen age 13 Son
Anders Gulbrandsen age 5 Son
Marthe Gulbrandsdatter age 2 Daughter.

The baptismal records for the children would tend to indicate that the father's actual name was Gudbrand Eriksen.

The following children were born to Gudbrand Eriksen and Anne Halvorsdatter:

Erik 1847 - baptised 17 Oct 1847 Winorums
Halvor 1850 - baptised 16 Feb 1850 Vindorum Farm
Niels 1852 - baptised 5 Sep 1852 Vindorum Farm
Marthe 3 Sept 1858 Vindorum Farm - she must have died as a child
Anders 2 Feb 1861 Vindorum Farm
Marthe 16 June 1863 Vindorum Farm

I see child born to Gudbrand Eriksen and Marthe Olsdatter - another marriage for Gudbrand, or not?
Olavus 9 March 1873 Vindorum Farm

I see that a Anders Guldbrandsen, from Gran, age 18, left Kristiana 14 May 1880 for Independence, Wis. The proposed destination and the actual destination can be different. I see another Anders Gudbrandsen, born 1861, leaving Gran 29 Mar 1882. The correct one - ?

There is an on-going project of the Hadeland Lag and the Kontaktforum to account for all emigrants from Hadeland who went to the US and Canada. Basically the goal is to secure information on what happened to the emigrant - marriages, occupation and the names and birth dates of the 1st generation in the United States. We would much appreciate the submission of information to the Hadeland Lag on the Andrew Gilbertson Family.

With the name Anders Gudbrandsen [Guldbrandsen], it would have been commonly changed to Andrew Gilbertson in the United States.

I could not seem to find definitive information on the emigration of Marthe Gudbrandsdatter.

I see that someone has posted a date of death for the 2 Feb 1861 Anders of 9 March 1941 in FamilySearch.

Re(2): Gilbertson Family
IP: 71.117.4.194
Posted on March 20, 2006 at 07:21:22 PM by

Thank you. I had found the census and baptism records (The last Marthe, I didn't have, but I knew about her asnd not the older one) I have family information and a 1870 census putting him in Kilbourn WI. But the information you sent will help a lot thank you.

Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 152.163.100.14
Posted on March 1, 2006 at 06:23:16 PM by

I am looking for help with immmigration history of the following person:

Johannes Johannessen, aka John Welhaven
b. 13 January 1869, Gran, Hadeland
Mother: Kiersti Christensdr
Father: Johannes Nilsen

Norwegian records indicate that 1) he left Gran in 1884 and went to Kristiana and 2) left for America in 1893. (source: Utflytta fra Gran 1825-1900 og Jevnaker 1837-1901, Norwegian National Archives, Digitalarkivet online database).

At some time, he changed his name to “John Welhaven” (probably after arriving in the U.S.). He was living in Minneapolis, Minnesota, in 1899 and 1900 (source: city directories and U.S. Census). I have not been able to find a record of him leaving Kristiana/Oslo for the United States, nor a record of his entry into the United States. I am looking for help answering two questions:

1. Am I interpreting the Norwegian record correctly? Did he leave Gran in 1884, but later return to Gran, and then leave again in 1893?

2. Does anyone have any evidence of his emigration from Norway to the United States?

Re(1): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.176.215
Posted on March 2, 2006 at 08:06:04 PM by

Dear Mr. Fonkert !

In the following I will try to answer your questions in the order which you have raised them:

1) You are interpreting the Norwegian records correctly considering Johannes' departure from Gran (!!) They CONFIRM that Johannes left Gran for Kristiania 1884 ! However, there is NO evidence (nor reason to believe)that he permanently returned again to Gran(!) Most likely he has been living (and working) in Oslo the last nine years prior to his emigration. This assumption is supported also by the fact that Johannes is NOT listed in the Gran census of 1891 ! As we do know Johannes was born 1869 in "Morstadhagen"; a tenant farm to the one of the Morstad "main" farms in Gran. 1891 one still find Johannes' parents; Johannes Nilsen and Kjersti Christensdtr. residing exactly the same place, together with Johannes jr.'s younger sisters; Margrethe aged 16, and Kjersti, 13. Given the fact that Johannes is listed in the Gran records of 1893 though, (unlike in 1884!) one can assume that he has been back to Gran immediately before crossing the Atlantic; to take a "final farewell" with his parents and siblings. Obviously, nothing but natural (!)

It seems (again according to the Hadeland records of 1893) as Johannes after moving to Oslo adapted Morstad as his surname; fixed surnames was more common in the major cities than at the countryside such as in Hadeland, where individuals were identified primarily by their PATRONYMIC surname !

Johannes' believed alteration of surname to "Welhaven" however, emerge somewhat "suspicious", and difficult to explain.

2) Neither I am able to find Johannes listed in the Kristiania emigration-records. But out of experience I do know that in the process of digitalizing these records, mistakes have been made. A number of emigrants verified to have left for America via Kristiania harbour, from the Hadeland region as well as other areas of south-eastern Norway, I have documented to be overlooked in this converting procedure. Consequently, I'm inclined to consider the information given in the available records as "circumstantial evidence." Furthermore, if the information you do have on Johannes (e.g. year and/or date of birth, Norwegian birthplace, parents names, etc.) based on American sources is in accordance with the information referred to above, this of course contributes as well to strengthen the hypothesis.

Additionally : While Kjersti was born in Gran, Hadeland in 1833, Johannes NilsSON (!) was actually swedish (!!) He was born June 24th 1833 in Brunskog, Varmland, Sweden. According to information provided by local records, he immigrated to Hadeland, Norway in April of 1857, allegedly to "search for work." The reality is however that he came earlier. January 1st 1857 Kjersti gave birth to her and Johannes "illegitimate" son named Iver. If on favour him with the "benefit of the doubt", he must have been here within the very early summer of 1856 the latest (!!) Not until November 26th 1857 did the couple marry in the beautiful St. Nicolai Church of Gran. At this occasion Johannes is titled "blacksmiths journeyman." The two settled first as tenant farmers below the "Skjaker" main farm in Gran, before (1862 ?) moving on to Morstadhagen. A few years later, allegedly in 1866, Johannes somehow managed to buy this previous tenant farm. Indeed uncommon so early in the 19th century, and equally admirable ! One can really puzzle over the fact that he was actually able to raise the considerable amount of liquid assets required (!)

In the 1875 census Johannes is titled "blacksmith and freeholder." Kjersti (Morstadhagen) passed away on april 17th 1895, and was outlived by Johannes who died in his home on march 3rd 1901 by the name "Johannes Morstad."

For comments or additional questions, do please not hesitate to contact me.

Yours very sincerely, Kjell M.

Re(2): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 152.163.100.130
Posted on March 2, 2006 at 08:24:57 PM by

Thank you very much for your attention to my query. I especially appreciate the information you provided about the 1891 census, which is not easily available to us here in Minnesota.

I have done research on Johannes Nilsson in the Brunskog, Varmland, church records. I have not been able to determine the exact year he went to Gran, but I did know about the birth of Iver before the marriage with Kiersti Christensdr.

Based on several pieces of evidence, we know that the man who was known as John S. Welhaven in Minnesota was in fact Johannes Johannessen, son of Johannes Nilssen of Gran. We do not know for sure when he started using the Welhaven name, but it was probably after he came to the U.S. We assume that he knew about the famous Norwegian poet Johan Sebastian Welhaven of Bergen, and for some reason decided to use the same name. We do not know why he changed his name.

It is an odd coincidence that some Welhaven descendents of the poet later lived in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Re(3): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.177.233
Posted on March 4, 2006 at 03:17:34 PM by

Yet another detail that I forgot to mention .. ..

As I expressed earlier, I consider it to be proven that Johannes actually DID emigrate the summer of 1893. Note that in the Hadeland emigration records, his "moving day" is stated to be July 31st. Which would give him more or less exactly the time needed in order to board the "S/S Island" (operated by the Danish "Thingvalla Line") which departed from Kristiania harbour on Thursday August 3rd - and landed in N.Y. the 18th of the same month .. (!!)

Truly, three more steamers left Kristiania within the end of August 1893; however they fit less well into what seems to have been Johannes' schedule ..

Perhaps one should offer a reward to the person who is able to come up with the passenger list for this particular voyage of the "S/S Island" .. :-))

Kjell

Re(4): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 66.228.250.28
Posted on March 5, 2006 at 08:59:44 AM by

Kjell:

Did you mention a reward?

The list of passengers for the S/S Island IS available on-line thru the Ellis Island Web site. There were 428 passengers on the ship - arrived from Norway/Denmark on 18 Aug 1893.

The URL is as follows:

http://www.stevemorse.org/ellis/boat.html

I searched under ship's name contains "Island" and date of arrival is 1893.

There was one Johannes Johannesen on the ship, age 24, destination Wisc., but his occupation was that of a sailor. I saw nothing approaching "Welhaven". There were two other Johannes Johannesens on the ship, but there were either age differences or an additional name added. I skimmed it quickly - I could have missed something!

This particular web site is for a third party search engine for the Ellis Island web site that is much superior to the standard Ellis Island search engine.

Dave Gunderson
Fergus Falls, MN

Re(5): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.178.1
Posted on March 5, 2006 at 03:59:45 PM by

Dave !

You are close to unbelievable, and you do make me laugh .. :-))

Yes, I did SUGGEST a reward; however it's good to find that a truly wealthy gentleman came up with might be the answer to what I/we was/were looking for .. that way Mr. Fonkert and myself are able to keep our modest savings intact .. *lol*

Does the passenger list confirm whether the immigrants actually were Norwegian or Danish citizens ... (?) Seeing that "our" Johannes had been living in Oslo his last 9 years in Norway, he could theoretically have had any (to us unknown) occupation; that of a sailor included .. even so if he hadn't been outside the Oslo dock basin .. :-)) I suppose the immigrants themselves defined their own title/occupation vis a vis the American authorities .. .. as we see in this particular case, they even went as far as defining their own surnames .. .. And to you Dave; I do believe I know you well enough by now to realize that you hardly missed anything .. .. you very seldom seem to do .. (!!)

The three other steamers which departured from Kristiania august 1893 were "S/S Hekla", "S/S Amerika" and "S/S Norge", landing in N.Y. respectively August 31st, September 9th, and 15th. These lists might also be worth checking .. ..

Sincerely, Kjell

Re(6): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 66.228.250.28
Posted on March 5, 2006 at 05:18:38 PM by

I seached the S/S Hecka, S/S Amerika, & the S/S Norge with no luck.

The best candidate remains a John Johannesen Nord???, age 24 on the S/S Island.

Re(7): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.180.151
Posted on March 6, 2006 at 06:06:20 PM by

Good work Dave !

The chances are, at least in my opinion, conciderable that the Johannes you refer to above is identical with "our" man.

As far as the "Nord???" part of what is presumably meant to be the beginning of a surname is concerned, MY personal guess is that this might be wrong for MORDSTAD - which was Johannes' ACTUAL surname - and the one he provably left Norway with (!) Whoever the guy who set these passenger lists up was, he just didn't apprehend this .. ..

Sincerely, Kjell

Re(8): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 205.188.117.11
Posted on May 29, 2006 at 02:03:01 PM by

Dear Dave and Kjell,

I'v been looking back at your posts regarding immigration of Johan Johannesen (Morstad/Wellhaven) of Gran.

You suggested that the might be the John Johannesen Nord___? arriving at New York on the S.S.Island in August 1893. The age is correct, and the timing is possible, but I am not convinced. He gave his destination as "Pes__p" ?? Wisc. I have not been able to figure out this place name.

Two things give me doubt:

1. I have not been able to find a record of him leaving Oslo/Christiana in 1893.
2. He was in Chicago in October 1893, where he filed declaration of intention for citizenship.

Hed did later live for a short time in Superior, Wisconsin. He sister Karen probably was living in Superior, Wisconsin, in 1893 at the tim of his presumed emigration.

Re(9): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.179.245
Posted on May 30, 2006 at 05:27:13 PM by

Dear Mr. Fonkert !

As you point out, the actual name of Johan's destination is somewhat hard to figure. And yes, my suggestion is of course nothing but a theory only; suggestions are normally not .. :-)))
And surly neither I am "convinced."

It's also true that the Oslo lists of departures don't include Johan. Not for the year 1893, but neither earlier OR later. However it's certainly known that he DID emigrate ! Hardly any such a list can ever be considered absolutely "complete", OR without errors and/or mistakes. It's difficult for me to see any other explanation than this to Johan's absence in these records. And his example is definitely not the only one I've experienced !

Even if landing in N.Y. with the "S/S Island" in August, Johan could very well have had the time to reach Chicago within a little more than two months later.

Sincerely, Kjell M.

Re(3): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.176.215
Posted on March 2, 2006 at 08:57:59 PM by

Mr. Fonkert !

I nearly forgot; would you be good enough to click the link at the top of this site - to our "Kontaktforum" Hadeland America ... (?)

One major project of our association is to collect as much information as possible on emigrants from Hadeland to the U.S. In this aspect I'd like to encourage you to make a "contribution", as it seems you have been working on your genealogy for quite some time .. ..

We would appreciate it if you forward your info. to us on-line or/and otherwise ..

On behalf of the Kontaktforum,

Kjell M.

Re(3): Morstad/Welhaven
IP: 195.159.176.215
Posted on March 2, 2006 at 08:40:02 PM by

So far - hopefully so good .. .. :-))

MAYBE Johannes simply was "attracted" by the name Welhaven for some reason that we'll never get to know ..
MABYE he during his years in Oslo was residing in the well known "Wellhavens Road" ..and became "inspired" by this fact .. (??)

Most certainly, and exactly as you point out, he never used Welahven as his family name until he reached America .. (!!) He wouldn't have DARED to .. :-))

Kjell

family tree
IP: 216.221.113.82
Posted on February 6, 2006 at 08:57:46 PM by

My great grand parents were Lars Grinaker and Martha Wien. Lars was born in Hadeland 9/23/1853. Does anyone have any information? Thanks
Tim

Re(1): family tree
IP: 209.81.107.215
Posted on February 6, 2006 at 09:27:23 PM by

There is a brief biography in the 1921 yearbook on this website, link below. We have some more information in the research files available to members.
1921 Yearbook

Niels Nielsen, Nils Nilsen
IP: 69.152.37.101
Posted on February 6, 2006 at 04:34:26 PM by

I'm looking for a death date for Niels Nielsen, (Nils Nilsen), born 27 Feb 1827 at Røssum farm in Gran. Niels was living in Brandbu at time of 1900 Census. I have been through all available churchbook records for Gran/Tingelstad/Brandbu which are available on microfilm through 1913. Does anyone have access to anything later than that? Would appreciate any help. Thanks

Re(1): Niels Nielsen, Nils Nilsen
IP: 209.81.107.215
Posted on February 7, 2006 at 08:32:28 AM by

1) Nils Nilsen died July 18, 1911 at Lysakermoen in Tingelstad and was buried July 28 at Tingelstad Church.
2) His first wife, Marthe Christensdtr., died Jan. 18, 1896 at Myrbakken (Gjefseneiet) and was buried Jan. 25.
3) Nils married a second time Sept. 29,1897 to the widow Marit Knudsdtr. born 1842 in Vågå, Gudbrandsdalen.

Re(2): Niels Nielsen, Nils Nilsen
IP: 69.152.37.101
Posted on February 9, 2006 at 03:52:47 PM by

Anne,
Thank you so much. I don't know how I missed that in the Tingelstad films. I know Brandbu went to 1913, maybe the Tingelstad film I had didn't go to 1911. I had the other information you sent, but appreciate your efforts.
Thanks again,
Roger Olson

Morstad Family -- Fergus Falls MN
IP: 156.98.85.141
Posted on February 6, 2006 at 12:19:47 PM by

According to her obituary, Mathea Morstad came to Oscar Township, Otter Tail County, near Fergus Falls MN in 1886, and reportedly had relatives in the area before she emigrated. Mathea was daughter of Johannes Nilson and Kersti Christensdr of Gran. Does anyone know of relatives of this family in the Fergus Falls area in 1880s?

Matthea married 1) Andrew Christofferson and 2) Andreas P. Overland.

There was another Morstad family in Otter Tail County, but I don't believe this family was from Gran.

Re(1): Morstad Family -- Fergus Falls MN
IP: 66.228.250.28
Posted on February 8, 2006 at 09:23:32 AM by

I checked the other Morstad Family in Ancestry.Com - the indication was that family originated in Østfold, Norway. I would agree that family is not related.

I looked up the marriage record in the Otter Tail County Recorder's Office. I was hoping the witnesses to the marriage would be relatives. The minister was O. N. Fosmark of Fergus Falls. One witness was Sara Fosmark [his wife?] and the other was "A. Ells???" - I could not read the last three letters.

I also checked the family history files in the museum, with no luck. I also brief looked at the 1885 Minnesota Census for Oscar Township - again no names appeared familiar. From what I could tell, it appeared that none of Marthea's siblings was in the Fergus Falls area in 1886. I also looked at her mother's family for a potential area relative in 1886 - again no luck.

The Fergus Falls area and west had a very large number of people from Hadeland. Obviously, at some point most were potentially distantly related. The other option would be a relative of the father.

Sorry, but I was unable to help you.

Dave Gunderson
Fergus Falls, Minnesota

Re(2): Morstad Family -- Fergus Falls MN
IP: 64.25.12.116
Posted on February 20, 2006 at 02:00:44 PM by

New to the site have been a member of the lag for a couple of years. Simply inquiring into the Morstad name. Grandparents imigrated in the 1880's. My Mother's maiden name was Leraan. Thanks, Noel "Nick" Morstad

Re(3): Morstad Family -- Fergus Falls MN
IP: 152.163.100.12
Posted on March 1, 2006 at 06:27:37 PM by

Noel, as you may know, there were Morstads in both the Fergus Falls area of west-central Minnesota and also in North Dakota. I really don't know anything about these two groups of families, but they don't appear to be from Gran. Five "Morstad" siblings emigrated from Gran:

-Mathea to Fergus Falls area
-Johannes (later known as John Welhaven) to Minnesota
-Nils to Minnesota, North Dakota, Alberta
-Karen (Carrie, Clara) to Wisconsin
-Anne Marie to Wisconsin, Minnesota
-Kiersti (Kate) to Duluth area